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[jefflewis]

I've been thinking about the idea of realistic fiction, and the relative lack of this in comic books. Any suggestions for comics I might not have read that fit this description?

Jeffrey

[jefflewis]

Here's some stuff I was recently writing about this idea, the lack of realistic fiction in comic books... and how it relates to novels.

Novelistic works of science fiction or other types of fantasy are rarely considered to have the highest possible literary ambitions. Novels with a fantastical element, for example A Clockwork Orange, 1984, Orlando, Farenheit 451, or Slaughterhouse Five, might achieve various levels of academic acceptance but are usually not held within quite the same weighty echelon of 20th Century English Literature as fictional novels which are more strictly based in the psychology and situations available in the real world; consider the more colossal canonical heft of the realistic novels of Fitzgerald, Joyce, Lawrence, Woolf, Faulkner, or Hemmingway. Even realistic fictions involving somewhat extraordinary situations, such as Lolita, Heart of Darkness, or Moby Dick, still hold a more respectable place in the modern English canon than even the highest achievements of out-and-out fantasy genre Lit; one rarely thinks of academic courses that include The Lord of the Rings, Dune, or Neuromancer (the relative value of all of this art is of course subjective, and I base these musings on no more reputable cultural dipstick than myself).
If we move forward with the above generalization, and accept that realistic fiction is, to a significant degree, a defining characteristic of the Great Novel in English Literature (and setting aside the subset of "magical realism" for the moment), then it's worth noting that comic books have been decidedly deficient in this category. High-quality reality-based fiction has not often been found in comic book form, and so the Great Comic Book Novels are problematic contenders for Great Novel status.
This dearth of high-quality reality-based fiction has nothing to do with a symbiotic relationship between comic books and fantasy, as an explosively growing body of high-quality non-fiction comic books can attest. For every ambitious novel of realistic fiction in comic books, for every Stuck Rubber Baby or The Jew of New York, there are seemingly dozens more comic book examples of ambitious NON-fiction: Persepolis, Louis Riel, Peepshow, Blankets, Maus, It's A Good Life If You Don't Weaken, Fun Home, Understanding Comics, Palestine, Safe Area Gorazde, Shenzhen, and other works of non-fiction comic book journalism, travelogue, biography, history, or memoir which also come to mind. Writing in 2010 it's fair to say that any survey of the highest artistic achievements of the comic book form in the English language reveals an intense polarization between the two extremes of non-fiction and UN-realistic fiction (science fiction, magical realism, fantasy, etc.). Where are the comic book medium's high watermarks of realistic fiction? Where are the comic book novels that fit this category which, by social consensus, allows entrance in the running for Great Novel status? They are seemingly few, and the ones that I have read are all problematically flawed when compared to the comic book masterpieces of non-fiction (above) or the comic book masterpieces of sci-fi/fantasy/magical realism (The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, From Hell, Lost Girls, Like A Velvet Glove Cast in Iron, Ed The Happy Clown, etc.)

(Footnote: In this discussion of the comic book novel, I'm not including notable works such as Sandman or Love & Rockets which fit the structural category of ongoing series rather than cohesive self-contained novels, despite various story arcs within each series).

Ghost World was initially an episodic series and not conceived of as a cohesive whole until at least halfway through its current collected form, and it shows - we seem to have a middle and an end of a realistic fictional novel but not an intentional beginning. Jimmy Corrigan fits into the same category as Ghost World; neither of these originally-serialized works appears to decide to become a novelistic whole until it's too late for the beginning, middle and end to all benefit from full cohesion with each other - they are arguably novels without beginnings. On the other hand the comic book form has given us some potentially great novels of realistic fiction that exist only as beginnings, in the perhaps never to be finished Berlin, the unfinished and abandoned Big Numbers and Detour, and the ambitiously begun but distractedly completed David Boring, with a meticulously constructed first act that bears little comparison to its more hectically executed final installment. There are perhaps more high-quality novellas of realistic fiction in comic book form than there are full-length novels: one thinks of Violent Cases, Shortcomings, Ice Haven, or the works of James Sturm or Gabrielle Belle, and if we allow for magical realism then A Small Killing by Alan Moore and Oscar Zarate possibly ranks as the greatest comic book novella of all.
In all of the above I can't claim an encyclopedic knowledge of English language comic books (not to mention non-English language comic books).

It is strange to think that the two most famous examples of comic book-as-literature are Watchmen and Maus. Watchmen is total fantasy and Maus is non-fiction. There needs to be more in the middle! More realistic fiction in comic book form!

[Dav]

Really interesting topic.
I have never noticed the lack of realistic fiction in comic book until you pointed it out, my comic book culture is pretty poor anyway, regarding amercians comics.

I've been digging my brain trying to think of some comics that would be realistic fiction for two days and couldn't think of anything.

I've read an interiew of Chuck Palahniuk a few years ago, he's the writer of Fight Club among other great books,
he was explaining that new generations of writers had to use metaphores way more that older writers because of censorship mostly, it's easier to talk about politics or society if you desguise it behind science fiction or anything, hoping the readers will get the message and translate back it in problems from our days (he explains this more better than i just did, i'll try to find that artcile back and post it)

Not really related but it made me think of it.

i don't know if there is any translation for it as i think it's not really a word but "uchronie" has always been a fascinating way to tell story in my opinion, uchronie is telling a story using an alternative historical or political point of view, like Philip K Dick used in The man in the high castle.

Not related either but it popped in my head while thinking about this post.

I always had the feeling that a good story has to be based on greek mythology for some reason.
Seems to me that greek myths feature all the strong ways to tell a story.

It's really weird that there are not that much realistic fiction in comic book when there is plenty in litterature, movies or tv shows.

What would you consider to be some good realistic fiction comic books to get Jeffrey?
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[silverwood]

i myself have taken quite a big interest into the non fiction journalism style of comics. i recently read Pyongyang by Guy Deelise, which i loved as an intriguing insight into a hermit nation which i find fascinating.

I did also just finish jimmy corrigan which again i thought was amazing, and probaly my favourite work of realistic non fiction. however reading the 2 one after the other, there does seem to be a significant difference in the way both stories are compilled and presented.
i guess some comics are set out intentionaly to be a story with a begining, middle and an end. non fiction is an easier basis to construct around this frame, because the events have already happened in realtime. This aims itself more to a classic novel structure
when it comes to realistic non fiction i gues it allmost seems like a lack of confiddence on the the comic book writers behalf. Alotof comic book writers dont seem to feel confident with plummeting head on with more human and emotional charecters and situations, with the daughnting task of having to construct and plan a solid begining to end plot. comic book writers seem to let there ideas develop slowly, and flow, almost as if there making it up as they go along. and then when they feel they got a good thing going, they then decide to head somewhere with it.

however that sort of clumsy development, gives a sence of spontaneity to alot of graphic novels that i myself love. when i read jimmy Corrigan i felt so much empathy for him, partialy because i felt like he was arkwardly drifting through the story as i the reader was.

anyway sorry if i went off the point. its not a very well eduucated opinion, just giving my ol 2cents
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[jefflewis]

I just read TWO really great examples of realistic fiction in comic books!
Well, actually, neither one was TOTALLY realistic, come to think of it... perhaps bordering on "magical realism" instead... but both were very good.

"Wimbledon Green" by Seth, the most enjoyable thing I've read by Seth since "It's A Good Life If You Don't Weaken". I bought it at the Here shop in Bristol!

and

"The Jew Of New York" by Ben Katchor - this is the first Ben Katchor graphic novel I've read, and it really knocked me out, the writing and the art are both so original and so well done. Totally different from any other comic book I've experienced, and VERY smart. I've got to check out more of his stuff. It's a quite odd fictional story involving New York in the 1800s, and many unusual and funny characters who continually interact in unexpected ways.

[silverwood]

ive heard pretty good things about jew of new york. heard it mentioned in some list of best graphic novels.

talking about comics about new york set in the past, i recently read the first volume of a comic book set in new york in the future. DMZ, volume one. i quite enjoyed it, thoght it was trying to be a little bit too edgy in parts, but it was a fun read. does anyone know if its a worth while series to read on with?
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[jefflewis]

I've never read DMZ but this topic reminds me that I also have not read Transmetropolitan which is supposed to be good, if you're looking for that sort of slightly futuristic thing. Of course Alan Moore's Top Ten is great (tho I haven't read all of it), maybe not quite in the exact same category...

[silverwood]

just read the first volume of transmetropolitan, and i realy enjoyed it.
the lead character was a proper cigarette smoking badass journalist that i imagine every 'too cool for school' english student would love to be.
the whole futuristic world is very well imagined
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