Jeff Lewis Forum Index
$1.75 US
$1.95 CAN
Jeff Lewis
message board
 
  FAQ     Search     Memberlist     Usergroups     Register  
  Profile     Log in to check your private messages     Log in  

Where next Columbus?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Jeff Lewis Forum Index -> Lyrics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kieron



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 909
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Where next Columbus? Reply with quote

I've got most of it, just a few bits I'm unsure of - please input!

Marx had an idea from the confusion of his head
Then there were a thousand more waiting to be lead
the books are sold, the quotes are bought
You learn them well, and then you're caught
In another's left, another's right, another peace, another fight

Mussolini had ideas from the confusion of his heart
Then there were a thousand more waiting to play their part
The stage was set, the costumes worn
And another empire of destruction born
In another's name, another's name, another's fall, another's fame

Jung had an idea from the confusion of his dream
Then there were a thousand more waiting to be seen
You're not yourself the theory says
But I can't help your complex pace
For another's hope, another's gain, another's loss, another's gain

Sartre had an idea from the confusion of his brain
Then there were a thousand more indulging in his pain
Revelling in isolation, and existential choice
Can you truly be alone when you use another's voice
Another's lies, another's truth, another's doubt, another's proof

The idea born, in someone's mind,
Is nurtured by a thousand blind
Anonymous feelings, vacuous souls
Do you feel the confusion, your lack of control?
Lift your arm to write a name
So caught up in the identity game

Who do you see? Who do you watch?
Who is your leader? Which is your flock?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who is your leader? Which is your flock?

Einstein had an idea from the confusion of his knowledge
Then there were a thousand more turning to advantage
They realised that their god was dead
So they reclaimed power through the bomb instead
It's another's code, another's brain, they'll shower us all in deathlier pain (?)

Jesus had an idea from the confusion of his soul
Then there were a thousand more waiting to take control
The guilt is sold, forgiveness bought
The cross is there as your reward
It's another's blood, another's pain, another's pride, another's shame

He watched how to distance (?), from the side you have chosen
Who's answers serve you best, you will save you from division
Who'll give you an exit and a comfortable cover
Who will take you near the edge, but never drop you over

Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Which is your leader? Which is your flock?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who is your leader? Which is your flock?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
hamlet



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is copied from a lyrics site:
Marx had an idea from the confusion of his head,
Then there were a thousand more waiting to be led.
The books are sold, the quotes are bought,
You learn them well and then you're caught.
Anothers left, anothers right,
Anothers peace, anothers fight.
Mussolini had an idea from the confusion of his heart,
Then there were a thousand more waiting to play their part.
The stage was set, the costumes worn
And anothers empire of destruction born.
Anothers name, anothers aim,
Anothers fall, anothers fame.
Jung had an idea from the confusion of his dream,
Then there were a thousand more waiting to be seen.
You're not yourself the theory says,
But I can help, your complex pays.
Anothers hope, anothers game,
Anothers loss, anothers gain.
Sartre had an idea from the confusion of his brain,
Then there were a thousand more indulging in his pain,
Revelling in isolation and existential choice;
Can you trully be alone when you use anothers voice?
Anothers lies, anothers truth,
Anothers doubt, anothers proof.
The idea born in someones mind
Is nurtured by a thousand blind
Anonymous beings, vacuous souls,
Do you fear the confusion, your lack of control?
You lift your arm to write a name,
So caught up in the identity game.
Who do you see? Who do you watch?
Who's your leader? Which is your flock?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who's your leader? Which is your flock?
Who's your leader? Which is your flock?
Who's your leader? Which is your flock?
Who's your leader? Which is your flock?
Einsten had an idea from the confusion of his knowledge,
Then there were a thousand more turning to advantage.
They realised that their god was dead,
So they reclaimed power through the bomb instead.
Anothers code, anothers brain,
They'll shower us all in deadly rain,
Jesus had an idea from the confusion of his soul,
Then there were a thousand more waiting to take control.
The guilt is sold, forgiveness bought,
The cross is there as your reward.
Anothers love, anothers pain,
Anothers pride, anothers shame.
Do you watch at a distance from the side you have chosen?
Whose answers serve you best? Who'll save you from confusion?
Who will leave you an exit and a comfortable cover?
Who will take you so near their edge, but never drop you over?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?
Who do you watch? Who do you watch?

"Can you truly be alone when you use another's voice?" Is there a lesson here, about singing someone else's songs?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kieron



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 909
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the Crass version, or Jeff Lewis? I'm sure he doesn't say "Who do you watch?" that many times. But thanks!

hamlet wrote:
"Can you truly be alone when you use another's voice?" Is there a lesson here, about singing someone else's songs?


Post-modern irony? I dunno, but I find it interesting that Satre is mentioned, and being an existentialist, would have thought Crass/Jeff would have liked his ideas. But to read and follow existenital thought itself is (possibly - i'm not an expert) a contradiction in terms? Clever stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
hamlet



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's an irony in singing someone else's song to tell people to use your own voice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ema



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1074
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hamlet wrote:
there's an irony in singing someone else's song to tell people to use your own voice.


lool
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1320

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject: WHere Next Columbus Reply with quote

In the Crass song, Eve Libertine sings:
"Sartre had an idea from the confusion of his brain,
Then there were a thousand more indulging in his pain,
Revelling in isolation and existential choice;
Can you truly be alone when you use another's voice? "

My interpretation of the lyric is that she means people who are self-indulgent depressive types, the kind of folks who align their world view with Sartre/existentialism, can't actually feel as hopelessly alone as they say they feel because the very act of identifying with Sartre's views creates a paradox - they know that other people feel the same way. "Can you truly be alone when you use another's voice?"
I'm not saying I totally agree with this, but I DO know that existentialism in the years between the world wars was attacked by the political left of the time. Existentialism was seen as a cop-out, an excuse for inactivity, a way for people to indulge in feeling sad and hopeless instead of becoming active in the fight to change the world for the better. The political left of the time also had cause to put down existentialism because one of it's biggest faces was T.S. Eliot, a known fascist, if I remember my facts right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hamlet



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Existentialists aren't necessarily depressive. All the San Francisco hippy and
Digger types were existentialists. In short, in the absence of God or absolute rules and morality, and faced with the meaninglessness of life/death (absurdity) you have to make up your your own. What's depressing about that? It's freedom.


Wikipedia:Existentialism is a philosophical movement which posits that individual human beings create the meaning and essence of their lives. It emerged as a movement in twentieth-century literature and philosophy, though it had forerunners in earlier centuries. Existentialism postulates that the absence of a transcendent force (i.e: God) means that the individual is entirely free, and, therefore, ultimately responsible. It is up to humans to create an ethos of personal responsibility outside of any branded belief system. That personal articulation of being is the only way to rise above humanity's absurd condition (suffering and death, and the finality of the individual).
I think T.S. Eliot was an Anglican and used a lot of religious imagery.

Who wants to be alone, anyway? It's OK if you join with someone as long as he/she doesn't take over. I hear "alone" in this song as being true to oneself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kieron



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 909
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hamlet wrote:
Existentialists aren't necessarily depressive. All the San Francisco hippy and Digger types were existentialists.


True. In Sartre's Existentialism is a Humanism I think the notion being put forward regarding good faith and bad faith points to the opposite. We do have choices and don't necessarily need to resign ourselves to depression. The very notion of good and bad faith points entirely to the contrary. Essentially, Existentialism is a Humanism says that we never have to resign ourselves to anything. To resign ourselves is to basically do something in bad faith (i.e. the act of doing nothing is an active choice made).


That's a bit rambling. I've been up for too long so this may not make sense...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
DrNick



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 161
Location: Stockport, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a really interesting discussion. On T. S. Eliot, he found God and joined the Church of England in about 1927 - so his earlier work (The Waste Land particularly) could be seen as existential and despairing, while his later poetry is specifically Christian (and 'Ash Wednesday' is about the movement between the two phases'). I wouldn't say he was really a fascist, although he flirted with it, and there's a horrible strain of anti-semitism in some of his poetry. Other people in his intellectual circle really were fascists (Ezra Pound is the obvious example).

I once spent a whole semester at university reading T. S. Eliot and I really think it changed my life.

It's interesting that the criticism of existentialism you mention - that it's a cop-out and a way of avoiding political commitment - is kind of how I feel about post-modernism. It can be about self-indulgent individualism. Existentialism is big on individual choice, which goes back to Kierkegaard, which you can see as reactionary and individualistic whereas leftwing movements tend to stress collectivity, although that's a bit simplistic. On the other hand, Sartre was a Marxist and very much on the political left.

To go back to the song, it's about how followers of people pervert those ideas - the modern church as perversion of the teachings of Jesus, Stalinist repression in Russia as a perversion of Marxism and so on. Existentialism is about choice but people just copying Sartre aren't making a choice themselves. Then the ultimate example of this (according to Crass) is the use of Einstein's theoretical ideas in the building of the atom bomb - which allowed the ruling class to carry on ruling, even though God is dead (itself an idea misrepresented from Nietzsche),
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/arhythmicnick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Jeff Lewis Forum Index -> Lyrics
 
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group