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Album length, indecision, history, arrgh!

 
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jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1485

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Album length, indecision, history, arrgh! Reply with quote

I've got the new album with me and Peter Stampfel basically all mixed and ready to duplicate but i really can't decide how long it should be... I feel like I should have trimmed down "A Turn in the Dream-Songs" by one or two songs, it probably would have been a better 42 minute album than a 50 minute album. Or is it better to just give people more? I think it makes sense to give people as much for their money as you can, but maybe it's not the best decision for an album?
Most classic albums are less than 45 minutes (look up some of your own favorite albums on WIkipedia, it will tell you the length!)... here's some that I looked up (or checked the length myself):

Stampfel, Hurley & Fredericks - Have Moicy! = 40 minutes
Holy Modal Rounders - first album = 33 minutes
Rolling Stones- Let it Bleed = 42 minutes
Rolling Stones - Beggars Banquet = 39 minutes
Donovan - Fairy Tale = 42 minutes
Donovan - Sunshine SUperman = 43 minutes
The Fugs - Village Fugs = 28 minutes
The Fugs - Virgin Fugs = 25 minutes
Grateful Dead - American Beauty = 42 minutes
Grateful Dead - Workingman's Dead = 36 minutes
Holy Modal Rounders - Indian War Whoop = 33 minutes
Holy Modal Rounders - Moray Eels Eat the HMR = 30 minutes
The Insect Trust - Insect Trust = 42 minutes
The Insect Trust - Hoboken Saturday Night = 41 minutes
Karen Dalton - In My Own Time = 33 minutes
Karen Dalton - It's So Hard to Tell Who's Going to Love You the Best = 31 minutes
RIchard Hell & The Voidoids - Blank Generation = 37 minutes
Velvet Underground - White Light/White Heat = 40 minutes
Patti Smith - Horses = 43 minutes
Talking Heads - Remain in Light = 40 minutes
Scott Walker - Scott 4 = 32 minutes
Beatles - Revolver = 35 minutes (UK version) and 28 minutes (US version)
Sonic Youth - Sister = 43 minutes
Pink Floyd - The Piper at the Gates of Dawn = 42 minutes
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon = 43 minutes
Beck - One Foot in the Grave = 37 minutes
Adam Green - Friends of Mine = 33 minutes
Lou Reed - Transformer = 37 minutes
Iggy & the Stooges - Raw Power = 34 minutes

So on and so forth! 35-45 minutes is seemingly a guiding principle of the classic enjoyable album. (Bob Dylan is an exception - a lot of his records hit the 50 minute mark.)
That nice cassette-side length makes it easier to pack a solid quality punch and make an album that people wanna hear over and over. The Stooges could have made Fun House into a longer album, as the 6-disc box set of out-takes shows, but they kept it to the best 35 minutes worth of material...
How long are your own favorite records?? Would they be better or worse if they were longer?? Obviously it's the quality of the material that's the most important... but on the other hand, sometimes even quality material can feel a bit too "same-y" if there starts to be too much of it...?
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misshelenc



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, I think everything ends up on the internet and getting released somewhere eventually so people will hear it. I am not bothered on the length, I think it is better when longer really, but then I still listen to like, cds and vinyls and am aware the young people of today listen to individual tracks on digital things so it hardly seems to matter then. Lots of my favourite albums are long with long songs I think.
A lot of people seem to get around it by doing a bonus cd don't they or a special edition version.
Am I making any sense? I doubt it, sorry.
Don't compromise anything for the listener, make the album you want to, and the stuff that you like and want to be on it, and they can get it or not. You're the artist, not me! xxx
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CrackyMcCrackerson



Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,
My personal opinion is around 35-45 mins of material is about right. Fucked Up, a band I love, released a record called David Comes to Life that is 78 mins long. That record suffers because it is so damn long. One of faves of last year was Japandroids Celebration Rock- 8 songs, 36 mins long and perfect. More bang for your buck is not always better. Sequencing and song strength make all the difference. So, I'd go around 40 min mark. Again, just a personal opinion.
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jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1485

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I have that David Comes to Life album and I think I have NEVER listened to it all the way through!
But also, that's a style of music that is really not meant to have albums so long!! The first Husker Du album is a perfect hardcore record, likt 18 minutes long or something. Also the first Circle Jerks album, I think that's about 22 minutes long, maybe even shorter, both are perfect albums!
It's funny that Fucked Up gets mentioned in this discussion of going on too long, because they did a gig in New York a couple years ago that was 24 hours long I think! I was going to stop by, but there was a line of people outside waiting to get in...

I think I'm going to leave ONE song off of the new Stampfel/Lewis recordings and keep the rest of the album in one piece. I have to make the final decision this weekend because I will drop it off at the manufacturing place on Monday.
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CrackyMcCrackerson



Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever you choose, I'm definitely excited to hear the results. What formats will the release be available on?
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jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1485

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll just be a CD for the time being, though I'll probably put the new album up on Bandcamp soon too for download option...
There has been talk of releasing the Stampfel/Lewis "Come on Board" album on vinyl, the Don Giovanni record label here in New York who helped organize the vinyl release of the Last Time I Did Acid album said they'd like to do the same with "Come on Board"... so presumably they'd also be into maybe working with me to do a vinyl edition of the new Stampfel/Lewis album too, but there's no way that'll happen soon enough to have a vinyl LP available this season. Maybe someday in the future.
Also another possibility is that I've talked to Rough Trade about doing a possible Rough Trade release of both Stampfel/Lewis albums, Come on Board and the new one, just so the albums would have some "official" existence in stores and stuff, other than just DIY copies I've made myself to sell via shows/internet. If I do eventually re-release these albums with Rough Trade then maybe there would be a vinyl release at that point, and also the CDs themselves would maybe have some more "official" packaging, like a digi-pack instead of a slip-sleeve perhaps.

But all of that stuff is just hypothetical. Right now the quickest easiest thing for me to do is just get the album manufactured myself here in NYC so we can do an album release for this upcoming tour! That worked totally great for the previous album. Why get more complicated with record labels (and having to give up a certain amount of the rights)... if you don't need to...

We have two album-release shows booked in NYC now... a Brooklyn release show on May 16 and a Manhattan release show on May 17.
Then the London show on May 23 will be like the UK album-release show!

All I need now is to get the album made... yaaaaaa....
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Dav
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Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 2890
Location: Rennes, France

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petsounds : 36:25
Syd Barrett : the madcap laughts : 38:00
My bloody valentine - extasy and wine : 29:09
Pixies - Doolitlle : 38:38
Pavement - Slanted and enchanted : 38:41

I definitly agree that an LP should fit on a tape side, somewhere around 40 minutes.

I was thinking about LPs that would be much longer and realise that i couldn't find much, if it's longer that 45 minutes it's got to be a real strong lp, the best exemple to me is Frank Black second solo LP teenager of the year, i easily listen to it from begining to strart without skipping anything, it's a real strong lp with real good tunes, it almost 63 minutes long.

Funny thing i've read about the madcap laughts LP in a Barrett biography i've just finished is that the tittle is wrong, in Octopus Syd sing the madcaT laughts at the man on the border, with a T, it's so obivous when you listen to it....
There's also a part where Syd say that his favorite bands were mother of invention and the Fugs...
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dazman



Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come On Board came in at 45m, but since the material was so good, the more songs the better, as far as I'm concerned. I have every expectation that the new album will be up-to the same standard.

I recall there were 4 recorded tracks that we're omitted from CoB...I suppose they can be included as bonus tracks when it gets re-issued, or perhaps made available on Bandcamp for download.

One other good thing about CoB was the final long song - 10+ mins. I'd like to hear more of those.

I'd like to see the new album fill the CD - make it double or triple album...

George Harrison's All Things Must Pass is a good triple studio album. Dylan's Blonde On Blonde is a great double. (It's also a fantastic album title - quite risque for the time...). So there is a case for exceeding the single album format.

I even think Brian Eno issued a 3-sided album. Sides 1,2 & 3...can't remember which one though..

Jeff - can you tell us how you and Peter came to agree on the track sequencing?
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jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put the track sequencing together myself, for both albums, and ran it past Peter to get his approval (and the rest of the band).

One of the out-take songs from Come On Board really seemed like it needed a good guitar solo, and Peter said that he thought he could get Ira Kaplan from Yo La Tengo to do the guitar solo on it. Ira Kaplan's a favorite guitarist of mine, it would be a dream come true for me if he would do a guitar solo on this recording! But obviously it has been a couple years now and this has still not happened... so who knows, maybe we'll have to just finish that song ourselves or re-record it eventually or maybe Ira Kaplan really will do a solo on it some day.
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Dav
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ira Kaplan solos are maybe my favorite thing about yo la tengo, he got such a sort of animal rage while playing solos on stage, love it. That's definitly a great news.
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jefflewis



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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it hasn't happened and it might never happen...

Yo La Tengo is such a great band with that stuff, I just get a lot less excited about them when Ira switches to playing piano/keyboard stuff, too easy-listening style for my preference. I think maybe Belle & Sebastian were a big influence on them and made them want to get more mellow!
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keithos



Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the new album's apparently out now and I'm desperate to hear it. I was going to pre-order from the website to get a signed copy but the postage to the UK was a bit steep so I think I'll just wait and pick it up at the gig. Hopefully there'll be some signing going on there too!
So has anyone got hold of the album yet? All I've heard so far is a few youtube performances of the new songs but I don't want to spoil the impact by getting too many snippets. I think I'll probably be hearing the songs for the first time live unless they appear on bandcamp before then.
Loved the first album, if this one's in the same league I'll be very happy!
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jack fe



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw the tracklist. Exciting! Is Crazy Creek anywhere near Random Canyon?
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jefflewis



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great idea! If I'd thought of that earlier I could have drawn a map on the album or something... maybe I can get Peter to play Random Canyon on tour and then we can play them back to back!
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misshelenc



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit late now, but me and a friend were talking about album length because we were thinking about making each other a mix cd of happy songs, and he said about 37 minutes being perfect. It reminded me of this communication and thought I'd share it...even though it hardly matters any more.
It seems I am the only one who votes for longer rather than shorter, just to prove I have no clue about anything.
xxx
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